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Threaded | Newest First | Oldest First
 JohnBarnes
2/27/2017 9:48:52 PM User Rank Platinum 
And yet another advantage
If you eliminate buffering, so that only the current frame (or a very small slice) are in the user computer at the same time, you eliminate a hack point for piracy and theft of IP, which ought to please a lot of content providers.
 freehe
2/27/2017 9:58:16 PM User Rank Platinum
Buffering Obselete
@Aditya, great article on buffering. Thanks for the insight.
freehe
2/27/2017 9:59:10 PM User Rank Platinum
Buffering
I am so glad that Netflix views buffering as a big problem. Now if only YouTube could see it too.
 ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 6:50:58 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Buffering
@freehe:
I am sure Youtube may be thinking in similar lines. freehe
2/27/2017 10:00:16 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@JohnBarnes, good point. Anything that prevents hackers it great.
freehe
2/27/2017 10:01:49 PM User Rank Platinum
Dial up
He said no one has dial-up anymore. Actually some people do, those that rarely use the internet and aren't concerned with speed still do.
"Hastings mentioned the "shhk-shhk" sound that a dial-up modem made, and said that many in the audience may not even be old enough to know that sound, because it is gone now. No one has dial-up connections any longer. He said he wants to make video buffering go the same way, where no one experienced it."  afwriter
2/28/2017 12:36:41 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial up
He may have been being pejorative, but I definitely don't know anyone with dial up and I would have to think that the technology isn't worth its weight any more.
 Adi
2/28/2017 6:42:39 AM User Rank Author
Re: Dial up
afwriter, freehe - I think it was just a throw away line, he was trying to make a point. I don't think he meant absolutely no one...it's like someone would say casually, "Oh everyone uses Amazon now," or "everyone has a cell phone now."
 elizabethv
2/28/2017 2:54:37 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial up
@afwriter - I don't know anyone with dial-up anymore either. And I honestly would have put money that the technology isn't available anymore. Seriously, what services are offering dial-up as an option anymore? Get off the phone so I can use the internet - dial up. I'd be surprised if it exists, in the United States, anywhere at least.
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 6:59:19 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial up
@afwriter:
I wouldn't disagree with you about dial up technology not being worthy any more. But we can't dismiss that there are absolutely no dial ups. I don't have stats to share. But there are some remote areas that do not give folks options to upgrade. ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 6:53:54 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial up
I had sinilar observation in the article.
But i assumed he may not have literally meant 'absolutely no dial ups' but he may have meant there are hardly any. And that is true, there are minial dial up connections out there at present. The trend is downwards.  srufolo1
2/28/2017 8:22:27 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial up
@freehe The "shhk-shhk" sound was referred to as the "handshake" signal, I recall. I cannot imagine anyone having dial-up because it required a certain kind of modem that is probably now obsolete. Anyone not old enough to know that sound should watch the movie "You've Got Mail" with Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks.
freehe
2/27/2017 10:04:49 PM User Rank Platinum
Netlfix CEO
Why was Peter Morgan outraged that Hastings watched The Crown on his mobile screen?
He also feels that viewing video on the mobile screen is a choice -- that some people will always prefer larger screens (he mentioned Peter Morgan, writer of Netflix series The Crown, and also Frost/Nixon, The Damned United and Rush, who was outraged that Hastings watched The Crown on his mobile screen); while others, probably younger viewers, would be more open to other, and at least some of the time, smaller screens. In his opinion, it will always be a mix. Adi
2/28/2017 6:40:55 AM User Rank Author
Re: Netlfix CEO
freehee - just because it's quite a visually opulent production, and he felt that seeing it on a 4-5 inch screen would take away from the experience. It's like Avatar or Star Wars - people want to see these in a theatre, and some will wait to see in an IMAX only. You want to maximize the experience.
But not everyone cares. As hastings said, he finds the smartphone screen rich enough visually. elizabethv
2/28/2017 2:57:43 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Netlfix CEO
@Adi - I can definitely see the creator being a little offended by someone watching something they created on a smartphone. Even if they have the ability to understand why someone might do so, it's still a piece of art they put time and effort into. You would want people to be able to truly enjoy and appreciate the full experience.
That said, I'm sure I could have upset a gaggle of artists if they knew a good chunk of my "art viewing" was on my 5 inch display, or worse, was distracted from by my 5 inch display. JohnBarnes
2/28/2017 8:15:58 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Netlfix CEO
I'm always kind of surprised by how non-visual so many of the supposedly visual generation are. Shows up when I try to teach how to present a graph -- many students really don't see why they should explain or address a graph, as its function is, to them, very much like a white coat in a toothpaste commercial, i.e. "I waved my magic evidence now you must believe!" Related, I think, is the number of students with normal hearing who always want captioning turned on because essentially they're planning to read the movie -- even if a third of it is obscured behind the words. They just don't get as much info from pictures. Sometimes I wonder if they actually get much information at all ...
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 6:56:29 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Netlfix CEO
He also feels that viewing video on the mobile screen is a choice -- that some people will always prefer larger screens....
I absolutely agree with this. There are many that think this way and i am one of them. I am a technology person, but large screen is my personal preference. srufolo1
2/28/2017 8:30:53 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Netlfix CEO
@freehe I wondered the same thing. What does he care where Hastings watched The Crown, as long as he was watching it. I watched The Crown on my laptop, and it was perfectly fine.
 Michelle
2/28/2017 1:10:08 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@Johns sounds like a mighty win for all. No buffering for anyone ever again!
Netflix is certainly the leader in video delivery even in less than pefect conditions. We use a handful of streaming providers and Netflix is still the most reliable on a spotty connection. Hulu and Amazon don't quite deliver a seamless viewing experience on the same connection. elizabethv
2/28/2017 2:59:24 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@Michelle - You're right about that one! Netflix seems capable of streaming even when Amazon and Hulu aren't. As much as I do love Amazon, I've been known to lose my patience with them too. Having to close out of whatever I'm watching and start it back up again to get a better connection gets old pretty fast.
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 7:06:30 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@elizabethv:
I haven't used much of amazon but have heard from others about not so pleasant experience they had. Netflix has certainly grabbed good market share. ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 7:02:40 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@Michelle:
I second you - Netflix is leading the way in video world. And this move to eliminate buffering is certainly going to make them even stronger in the video world. JohnBarnes
2/28/2017 8:18:09 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
Michelle,
Abolishing buffering is also going to be a godsend for totalitarian dictatorships; nobody can preserve any significant amount of information from previous state-media broadcasts. we have always been at war with Eastasia, and you have no way to prove we haven't. Michelle
2/28/2017 9:34:08 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@John We're going to live in 1984 forever, aren't we? As long as there's technology there will be something really terrible about access to it...
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 6:48:59 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@JB:
You brought two interesting points - Piracy and IP theft, favorite ones for providers. srufolo1
2/28/2017 8:25:49 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@JohnBarnes Once again you've enlightened me on something I did not know. How is buffering a hack point? Does it have something to do with the delay before the video plays?
JohnBarnes
2/28/2017 8:55:42 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
srufulo1,
Buffering is a hack point because it's a partial download -- there's a sizable chunk of the video in short term memory. If you can snapshoot that buffer (everything is set up to prevent you doing it, but that's just a challenge to anyone trying to hack it, and not necessiarly a hard challenge) enough times while the video is playing, you only need to identify a small number of places to stitch your snapshots together to have a full copy. Furthermore, there has to be a way of taking things out of the buffer, and that way can be copied and spoofed. The closer you get to true streaming, the more "stitching" you have to do, because the pieces are smaller, and the less of an extractor there needs to be. At the limit, you'd have to stitch every frame together from fractional pieces and your computer wouldn't be operating on buffer contents at all. Sort of an analogy: Basically the size of the buffer is the size of the piece of fabric, and the buffer extractor is the thing that marks seams and holds the cloth together. A big buffer needed to smooth things out a few years ago would give you several large complete pieces of the garment and a set of tools for matching them up and sewing and trimming. True streaming would give it to you a thread at a time with no tools to handle it with. srufolo1
2/28/2017 9:02:29 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@JohnBarnes Oh, thank you for this explanation of how buffering is a hack point. Now I can actually understand it! Also, I am one of those hugely visual people who appreciate charts.
Michelle
2/28/2017 9:37:49 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: And yet another advantage
@John I'm questioning everything I know about video delivery... I really don't understand how buffering works. Thank you so much for going into detail like this!
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 9:49:49 AM User Rank Platinum
Wow
We'll Make Buffering Obsolete, Like Dial-Up: Netflix CEO
I still have to read the article. But i couldn't resist to say this out loud...this title itself is an attention grabber. I felt like 'Wow...'. I will read and be back with my response(s) soon.  clrmoney
2/28/2017 10:31:30 AM User Rank Platinum
Dial Up Obsolete
I think that they shoud get rid of dial up because it be slow at times for them to come up with a better solution is great.
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 7:04:17 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@batye:
Agree with you. I shared exactly similar thoughts about dial up connections still being around in rural / suburb areas.  batye
3/2/2017 1:10:27 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@ms.akkineni this days use of technology does require a high speed internet... and dial up just could not do it... could not do it...
ms.akkineni
3/26/2017 6:18:22 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@batye:
Absoutely, I wouldn't deny that. But there are still some remote areas that are still stuck with dial up being the only option.  dlr5288
3/31/2017 12:09:44 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
I didn't know that! Wow I couldn't imagine still having my dial up. I rmemeber years and years ago how long it would take. Most people today take how fast their internet is for granted.
dlr5288
4/24/2017 12:54:09 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
Yeah I get it! It definitely makes sense as to why there's only certain things offered because of the location. It just brings me back to when I was little..thinking about dial up!
batye
4/2/2017 1:49:56 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@ms.akkineni yes, but never less I'm hopping for a change... as better/faster bandwith internet gives better knowledge :) - how I see it :)
ms.akkineni
4/26/2017 11:10:52 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@bayte:
As i said in my other post, we certainly have to keep our hopes high. That is the basic step of setting ourselves an expectation. That's when we can work towards that target. That is what i belive should be our cycle. JohnBarnes
2/28/2017 8:20:14 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
Batye,
Rural areas in affluent countries will keep dial up for a little while longer, sure, because they already have phones and they've never installed higher-tech stuff. But rural areas in less developed nations will just go straight to satellite or other media that don't require laying cable out to shacks in the boondocks. So probably the last dial-ups will be in the poorest parts of the richest countries. Michelle
2/28/2017 9:39:07 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@John I wouldn't have guessed that. I assumed affluence would equal ultra broadband wherever available.
batye
3/2/2017 1:12:03 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: Dial Up Obsolete
@JohnBarnes in the area where I live you still have dial up but at the same time where is no cell signal as it too rural... sad....
Steve Stanganelli
2/28/2017 10:32:45 AM User Rank Steel
RE: Diablo up
@adi, afwriter, ,freehe That's the same vibe I got from it. While dial up is still around for the few that don't really use the internet and only have it for the rare times they need it, meeting a person who has dial up would be like meeting someone who doesn't own a cell phone.
On another note though, with how popular streaming new episodes of television shows, old television shows, and movies, In the next 10-20 years I could see cable companies either having to fight to keep cable a thing by lowering prices, or cable starting to really become a the of the past. srufolo1
2/28/2017 8:36:46 PM User Rank Platinum
RE: Diablo up
@Steve Stanganelli I don't know who in the world would be using dial-up and what in the world they would be connecting to. I remember when I was at my last job and I was picking up mail from my old AOL account because I was still receiving mail there from places I couldn't change the address, and that signature "You've Got Mail" blurted out in the office. Someone commented, "Oh my God, someone still has AOL!!" Of course, I did not let on that it was I. And having AOL is not half as bad as still having a dial-up modem!
ms.akkineni
2/28/2017 7:10:46 PM User Rank Platinum
Content Provider
Indeed, Hastings was clearly trying to position Netflix more as a content provider than a service provider throughout the interview, saying, "We've always wanted to create excellent programming, and distribute it worldwide, all at the same time."
It is clear that he is promoting Netflix as a content provider more than a service provider. I believe that kind of hints their strategy. srufolo1
2/28/2017 8:52:27 PM User Rank Platinum
Netflix CEO Make Buffering Obsolete
This is an interesting article from Mobile World Congress 2017 in Barcelona. I wonder what juicy tibits BBC's Stock was trying to get out of Netflix CEO Reed Hastings that he wasn't revealing. Whatever, he was concentrating on this whole buffering thing and the notion that it will become obsolete like dial-up. There are so many things in technology that have disappeared. Does anyone remember CompuServe?
 mhhf1ve
3/3/2017 11:44:31 PM User Rank Platinum
done with cheap storage?
Maybe netflix will go back to mailing users content? I could imagine getting a SSD with all the original content Netflix owns on it.. in the mail.
ms.akkineni
3/26/2017 6:21:29 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
@mhhf1ve:
Thta is an interesting thought. SSD with original content certainly sounds like a potential option. Have you heard, seen or read something in that lines already? mhhf1ve
3/28/2017 2:34:36 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
I don't think NTFX will send solid state drives in the mail anytime soon, but I'm just speculating about the possibility bc SD cards are relatively cheap -- and there's really not that much original content that wouldn't fit on a mailable drive....
I'm wondering what the future of 4K (and beyond) video storage is for physical media -- optical discs aren't practical anymore, and solid state drives are getting bigger and cheaper all the time. mhhf1ve
4/4/2017 3:22:26 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
> "I think soon we're only going to see SSD/Memory cards and streaming media... and nothing else"
I think you're right. Physical media isn't as profitable as it once was. Now that everything needs to be *rented* -- you can get consumers to pay for content again and again, instead of letting them "own" it forever. And once no one remember what optical discs were used for... no one will care about DVDs or Blu-ray or whatever discs. mhhf1ve
4/4/2017 6:33:26 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
Unfortunately, I think hard drives have a higher failure rate than VHS tapes! So.. you're really going to need those backups someday. I'm also curious how you're transferring the content as I haven't seen too many good solutions that do so faster than real time....
batye
4/4/2017 8:22:52 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
@mhhf1ve I do not know as I go by what I got told by my friend pc tech working in the local PC show, people ordering three to four 8TB drives with usb 3 cases and few months after they droping/giving away for free DVD's/VHS/tapes/LP's I think they use one of the Amazon solution kits like transfer your media to HD via usb... as I do not think it could be any other way to preserve media...
mhhf1ve
4/5/2017 1:30:38 AM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
Putting DVDs on a backup drive isn't too hard or inconvenient-- it's digitizing VHS and LPs that takes time. Basically, you have to watch/listen to the content in real time to make a copy. Maybe you could spin the LPs faster and then use some audio editing software to slow it down....
ms.akkineni
4/26/2017 1:40:06 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
@mhh:
These details you shared are very interesting. I am not aware of SD cards being that cheap. mhhf1ve
5/1/2017 7:34:48 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
The price of an SD card all depends on the size and the quality of the storage on it.. if you're only going to store a bit of info on it, a smaller low-quality SD card can be made pretty cheaply. If you want to have a LOT of storage capacity and have all of it be error-free, then you're going to be looking at a much more expensive SD card.. It's just like LCD screens or silicon chip wafer sizes...
ms.akkineni
5/16/2017 8:10:10 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
@mhh:
Thanks for the details. As it is with every product, You get what you pay for... batye
4/2/2017 2:14:20 PM User Rank Platinum
Re: done with cheap storage?
@ms.akkineni what I see on the market today big Co. getting read of the SAS drivers replacing them with SSD drives and/or moving to the cloud...
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