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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
10/30/2017 5:26:21 PM
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A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Getting companies to switch to newer "clouds" and networks can be challenging because of the "sunk costs" that have been already invested in tech that already works "good enough" for now (and even the foreseeable future). Until there's really a tangible benefit, most companies will continue to do things the way they've been doing them comfortably. No migration is ever painless, so there must be some guaranteed upside to "transform" for the future.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
10/30/2017 7:12:30 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mhhf1ve:

Absolutely, 'Sunken Costs' are making companies to step back in transformative initiatives not only limited to Cloud but many other areas. In addition technology at all fronts has been chnaging at a rapid rate and longeivity has reduced significantly. That is adding even more reservations for companies to invest further, besides the fact that companies like to see future value for any transformation. I think that is a fair expectation.

 

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batye
batye
11/5/2017 7:42:46 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni yes, as this days each Co. looking at bottom line and at the end of the day to show profit at the shareholders meetings... the way I see it... 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/7/2017 4:04:28 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye:

Yes, and to me that is not out of the norm because that is the whole point. It is a different argument if that is feasible in all scenarios. Any initiative would start after certain level of planning, forecast in terms of value proposition etc. So when things change too frequently companies would obviously struggle with costs that may not hold much longer and that would make it challenging for them to target profits.

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batye
batye
11/7/2017 11:15:28 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni I could not agree more as this is the way life in IT/Tech. happening this days... 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/8/2017 2:50:13 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Very ture. Some of the companies are tending to understand and realize that is the way things are working in present market. Such companies are planning proactively with that constraint included in their process. Others who are still sruggling to digest that factor are the ones that are still continuing to struggle longer.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/8/2017 4:48:24 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, well stated.  It becomes a matter of how well you are developing your capabilities to compete and prepare for the future.  Peter Drucker stated that business has to earn today the cost of doing business tomorrow.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/8/2017 8:35:09 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
...Peter Drucker stated that business has to earn today the cost of doing business tomorrow.

Wow, such a great and factual statement.

In current market conditions, this has to become model for all businesses. If not it becomes stagnant early on and will hit a deadlock. Having that forward thinking element to be part of the process would help to handle situations where an upfront cost becomes mandatory to meet changing market trend as well as be competitive.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/9/2017 6:15:22 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, thanks!  Yes, it is a fundamental truth that we would all do well to remember.  It would move us forward in more sustainable business models.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/10/2017 3:35:23 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Absolutely, Sustainability becomes key in any model. It is ok to introduce more pieces and additional tweaks to accomodate chaging needs, as long as the base level model could be sustained well.

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batye
batye
11/11/2017 5:11:11 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni yes you are right plus I would add ability to replicate positive results :) 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/13/2017 4:29:47 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye:

You made a good point, otherwise the whole purpose would be ruined.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/14/2017 12:10:14 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, which creates the capacity to grow and develop true organic growth.  This is where the true returns and economic gains begin to show up and produce real value.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/15/2017 2:44:56 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Couldn't have said any better. I like the term 'Organic Growth', and that is the real value and benefits that organizations envision to see.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/15/2017 6:19:16 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, thanks!  Organic growth provides the space and opportunity to drive the new rules for competition and deliver the maximum returns.  The ability to "drive", as opposed to follow, these changes is a much more desirable result.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/16/2017 10:53:31 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Can't agree more. Organic growth becomes very critical in this fast paced market. I believe following market conditions is equally important to be able to think and drive new initiatives. Do you agree?

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DHagar
DHagar
11/16/2017 5:43:45 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, yes, I fully agree.  It becomes "discovery-driven planning".  We have to lead and provide better new models but then test, validate, and adapt to the changing markets.

That lesson should have been learned in the 80's when the US automakers lost market share to Japanese companies; who did a better job of responding to markets and changes.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/20/2017 3:26:18 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagra:

I like the way you come up with meanngful labels like 'discovery driven planning'.

You are very true in saying that this should have been a learning in 80s ideally. But that wasn't the case unfortunately. Late better than never.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/20/2017 6:34:15 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, thank you for your kind remarks! 

Actually, that has been my experience.  I was just in a meeting this morning with a peer who asked the question, "why is it so difficult for us to be willing to learn"?  And we discussed that we have to understand what/how the current answers no longer work and be willing to ask new questions and learn the new answers that evolve - ie "discovery driven planning".

I believe that is the key to the new digital economy.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/23/2017 2:14:05 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Very interesting question. And questions are very useful and also sign of working thought process. I agree with you on the follow up discussion about the need to ask new questions to keep discovering new answers. And this is an ongoing process in the journey of discovering and rediscovering.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/27/2017 7:36:54 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, I think that is one of the things I value about Telco Transformation, it is a learning community assembling what we know, asking questions, learning from each other, and building new knowledge!

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/18/2017 3:09:06 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

There is absolutely no doubt about how privileged we all are to be part of this great community. We are getting a chance to be around all great minds and to be able to exchange thoughts. There is constant learning going on in this community.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/18/2017 6:41:41 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, we all benefit and learn together!  The new source of knowledge.

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batye
batye
11/8/2017 4:49:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni yes, I could not agree more I would say Co. must plan ahead for this development/challenges ahead to survive... - the way I see it... 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/8/2017 8:39:05 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye:

Absoluetly. As stated in another comment, companies should plan in such a way that atleast tiny portion of the earnings must be utilized for upcoming initiatives. That way there won't be surprises and things can be handled in better fashion whenever there is a demanding trend that compaies have to invest into and be sure that they are still able to meet market conditions.

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batye
batye
11/8/2017 9:05:20 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni yes as in my mind everything must be calculated and take in the account during planing of the change... 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/13/2017 4:33:25 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye:

That's where granular level planning comes into play. But we need to also remember that we can plan as much as we could, but should never forget that tere could be some variables that may come up in the process and that should be dealt with. Only thing that we can try to achieve is to miminize  the magnitude of those last minute discoveries

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DHagar
DHagar
11/2/2017 6:02:12 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mhhf1ve, very true - people will stick with what they know and the decisions and investments they have already made.

However, I think that is what Huawei has identified now in building better business cases and designing and implementing those into organizations with better business solutions that is the opportunity to truly complete transformation.  I believe they are correct - that is the hurdle that needs to be overcome.

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batye
batye
11/5/2017 7:44:17 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar the way I see it it a process as people keep tend to resist the change but this days embracing the change and ability turning on the dime is a must for any Co. to survive - just my two cents... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/6/2017 6:27:37 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, so right you are!  And Huawei seems to recognize that in the way they are facilitating clients and solving customer problems effectively inthe transition. 

They can win on two counts,their own agility. and their ability to provide services to clients in enabling them to change effectively.  Smart move!

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batye
batye
11/6/2017 6:38:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar yes, thank you, I see it not only as smart move but also as a smart risk or well calculated risk... - the way I see it... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/6/2017 6:42:34 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, that is a great point!  Today, you can hardly move forward without risk.  So it is a well planned and calculated risk.  They seem to recognize that you either move forward or get left behind, and have calculated that is a better risk!

Note:  Those making no decisions think they are playing it safe, but it is a decision not to decide and make change, which may be more risky!

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batye
batye
11/6/2017 6:59:36 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar thank you :) the way I see things in this economy you have no other choice as to take smart/calculated risk to survive... as there is nothing more permanent than temporary... and movment must be constant factor... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/6/2017 7:04:33 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, I like that - "nothing is more permanent than temporary" - great reality of today.

Yes, the key skills today are not control, but the ability to adapt and develop resiliency - that is what will effectively enlarge capacity and survival.

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batye
batye
11/6/2017 7:54:46 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar  for me adaptabilty is survival skill a must have to be alive in this new age of technology :) 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/7/2017 5:29:26 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, very true.  And it gives you the capacity to develop new growth and produce new value; which yields much higher returns than the additional revenues produced by simply cutting costs.

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batye
batye
11/7/2017 11:14:26 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar thank you :)  yes as it also a process trying to save while keep ROI in check... as new technology most of the time winning at the end... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/8/2017 4:47:01 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, true, it increasingly becomes a matter of how you are actually "transforming" to accommodate and take advantage of new technology that becomes a new element.

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batye
batye
11/8/2017 4:50:50 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar I would say taking in the acount changes in technology and development is a must and no other way around it... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/8/2017 4:53:26 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, very true.  And I am certain we have not yet even considered the compounding changes that IoT and cognitive computing will cause.

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batye
batye
11/8/2017 5:05:58 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar thank you, for me it like change is in the air and we must breath it in :) new reality of ever changing technology... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/8/2017 5:13:01 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, true, and the combination and driving forces of artificial intelligence with growing human intelligence will further drive change and applications of technology.

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batye
batye
11/8/2017 5:50:32 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar the way I see it as technology grow we must embrace it and grow/educate ourself to grow/develop with it - accepting as a constant positive challenge... 

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/8/2017 10:26:57 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
As I have repeatedly noted in our on-going discourse, as long as we never forget the human element--here is the thing, though, when I read about Deutsche Bank basically noting that half of its' 97,000 workforce is going to be made redunant, we have a challenge we have to make sure we mitigate constantly and consistently...

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/9/2017 8:53:52 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan - Half of their jobs being make redundant is astronomical! That's just crazy! My brother is currently living in Japan, and he said that in Japan, they don't allow for a job to be made redundant with technology. That they still have people who work in large rooms with literal filing cabinets and hand written papers. They put their people over their progress. In this instance, I would think letting the jobs suss themselves out with atrition would be best for the economy. But the "captailism" that has been drilled into my brain understands that won't happen. Somewhere out there, is a man with mulitple yachts, and he won't lose even one of them to save a person's job unnecessarily. Though apparently Wall Street is over-investing in the food industry at the moment, in an attempt to offset the loss in brick-and-mortar retail shopping. Perhaps everyone in the banking industry can go get jobs waiting tables. 

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/9/2017 8:21:37 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Japan has a labor shortage because the population is shrkinking.   But in the age of Alibaba and Amazon, we have a challenge--epitomized, for instance, by Deutsche Bank noting that half of 97,000 people may be rendered reduntant (48,000 people..and if you factor in about 7 people that are somehow impacted directly or indirectly), almost 350,000 people will be impacted by the decisions of one company alone--yes technology is nice--but at what cost? 

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batye
batye
11/10/2017 12:05:25 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan interesting point and observation as I always ask what is bottom line will be and what is gonna be cost at the end... 

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/10/2017 3:32:43 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
What is absolutely critical, though, is for us to keep an open mind--and not be taken aback whenever challenges occur--strictly lthinking about the bottom line, per se, would not have yielded us the many advances we've had--right?

 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/14/2017 12:08:52 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan, very true.  That would only reinforce the most expedient answers, which actually works against true transformation.  Transformation requires new investments and the cost of transforming into new high value returns; otherwise we stop short.

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/14/2017 8:46:11 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
The question is where the focus must be in order to create the true future we all aspire to.    It is in the end about making lives easier in the end--right?

https://www.recode.net/platform/amp/2017/11/10/16629952/too-embarrassed-to-ask-podcast-tech-morning-routines-kara-swisher-lauren-goode 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/14/2017 5:53:07 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan, well it certainly is about solving the customer's problems - in the ways they define.  So Huawei providing a new platform to enable organizations to transform offers a key bridge to improved performance with technology.

If they keep their focus on this it will be a winning proposition.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/14/2017 7:46:26 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan - I wonder what those jobs entail exactly and if their positions could be repurposed or salvaged elsewhere? I would imagine they are all much too qualified for table waiting, but perhaps they could work in design? Security? Tech Support? I'm sure there must be someting for at least a portion of them. 

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/14/2017 8:47:11 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
That's a good goal to aspire to-although the reality is otherwise right now.    I continue to remain hopeful, though as I took comfort in this:

https://www.ted.com/playlists/580/deep_studies_of_humanity?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2017-11-11&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_content=playlist_title

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DHagar
DHagar
11/14/2017 5:54:50 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, I am with you!  I believe we do a disservice to employees and the organizations when we do not look beyond the tasks and skills they have been using and upgrade those skills to new value jobs.  I believe that is the future opportunity for growth and win-win solutions for all.

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batye
batye
11/15/2017 2:35:32 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar yes, in my opinon it very smart move and at the end it will be a game changer... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/15/2017 6:07:28 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, thanks!  That is your true capacity for the future.  If you ignore your human capital your technology investments will be marginalized.

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batye
batye
11/16/2017 6:55:36 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar thank you, the sad reality everyone looking at bottom line keep forgeting human factor or how to be human... I look at this way technology should be integrated in our life... but we should keep our humanity... 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/16/2017 5:36:55 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@batye, if not, we can easily be replaced by machines!

Interestingly, there is a ventures capital funding group working now in Silicon Valley that are solely funding applications for development of consumer-driven products that will improve the quality of life.  So there is a recognitiion of the need for the human factor - not only in employees but with consumers.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/16/2017 9:35:29 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar - I think the aspect of human capital is largely ignored and overlooked right now. Which realistically doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't price people out of the market. You can't sell a product for so much that people can't afford to buy it, or you end up with no market. The real problem we have right now, is that mega corporations can afford to float failing businesses. The Sonic that I helped to open never made a profit. The owners built it just because they knew they would be able to claim a loss on the building. Which plays into the article I had found and read recently. A lot of Wall Steet big wigs (that is the specific term) are currently investing in restaurants to off set the retail shift that is happening with brick-and-mortar stores. What isn't being accounted for is the mom and pop restaurants that can't compete because they only have 1 store and that store has to make enough money to stay afloat. And now, instead of competing with 10 restaurants in the surrounding area, it could be competing with 20 or more. The human capital just isn't a concern for these massive companies. 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/16/2017 5:41:12 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, excellent assessment.  Yes, and this divide and conquer at any price mentality will accomplish nothing. 

We truly have to develop new economic infrastructures that bridge and enable existing businesses to compete, along with industrial transformations that attract new capital.  We need economic corridors that can link and promote the small-to-large in combined collaborations in delivering new products/services.  That is why I believe so strongly in "transformation", and the innovations of leaders like Huawei in building new models.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/22/2017 6:52:18 AM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar - I completely agree, we need smaller businesses to work to create new ways to ensure smaller businesses can survive in a market inundated with corporations that can survive by barely trying. I would suggest a change in culture, to encourage people to take the time to find smaller businesses to support. But realistically, we are all creatures of convenience. And corporations make life convenient. 

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Ariella
Ariella
11/22/2017 10:45:03 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethV Very true. I do feel it's important for the little guy to have a chance, and that is increasingly difficult. I, too. will more quickly turn to Amazon for something I need than look around in my local shops -- unless I need it right now -- because it offers the best pricing and makes it easy to do everything from my keyboard. 

This is really changing shopping dynamics. That's why the WSJ just ran an article with the headline How Amazon Can Make or Break Holiday Retail

A surge in holiday shopping online has made Amazon a kingmaker. Amazon is expected to drive as much as half of all U.S. retail sales growth this year during the holidays, according to Morgan Stanley estimates. About 42 cents of every dollar spent online year-to-date went to Amazon, up from 38 cents during the holiday period a year ago, according to Slice Intelligence, which tracks a panel of more than 5 million U.S. online shoppers.

With a small product lineup, "it is tough for us to create visibility for our products in stores like Target and Best Buy," says Vikas Gupta, co-founder and chief executive at Wonder Workshop, a 5 year-old startup based in San Mateo, Calif. The only way to do that would be to invest more in displays, and that is "very hard for a small company."

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DHagar
DHagar
11/22/2017 5:48:26 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, good example - but Amazon will not be a sustainable model for all business - I do not believe.  I share with you their convenience as a "deliverable" platform - but you won't have many competitors that will be able to put together that supply chain.

I like their convenience as well, but recognize you still need "content" providers and goods for Amazon to deliver, or they have no value.

I also remember that Amazon did not "create" anything and in fact drove many smaller book distributors out of business.  So I am careful to look at the net sum.  Our economy cannot afford too many of those giant elephants or we will lose our competitive edge?

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Ariella
Ariella
11/22/2017 5:55:52 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar I's true that Amazon doesn't create anything. It is really just a means of connecting buyers and sellers. For buyers it offers the ultimate in transparency on costs and convenience for those who ar enot close to physical stores. For those in bricks-and-mortar, though, it is very hard to compete. But I think that just as we have to adapt to digital in other walks of business, we have to accept that the old store models are no longer sustainable either. It may be sad, but that's the way of technological progress. Yes, there are still a few small bookshops that can survive because they're not competing on price but on service, including gift wrapping books . I see some small toy stores work out that way; they get the premium prices for premium services, which works, so long as your location is convenient for customers willing to pay for that.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/22/2017 6:00:24 PM
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Platinum
Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@Ariella, very true.  We have to take into account the realities of the "digital economy"!  So we will have to find new digital models for small business.

Very true on toys - even ToysRUS is in trouble!

Amazon clearly provides new "valuable" channels for distribution.  I believe the future will not be either/or but some new hybrids that will encourage and support innovative growth while benefiting from the unique capabilities of the large players like Amazon.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/23/2017 9:00:19 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar - Every store is in trouble. Most of us carry around a smartphone in our pockets. That means we can stand in any aisle, in any store in the country, and price shop. We can see if Amazon has the product cheaper. Or if there's another store that sells it cheaper. We can choose not to buy something, because it's easy to see if we can save money buying it elsewhere. Price Matching is almost a requirement if you want to try to compete. It's those tiny little devices that are the biggest threat to brick-and-mortar stores. 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/27/2017 7:11:17 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, true.  However, you hear a lot of speculation over Black Friday, etc.,  it seems that there is still a desire with customers for a positive "experience" that offers the brick-and-mortars and opportunity.  \

Certainly we have to deliver it diffierently, but maybe there is a new version on the horizon?

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/28/2017 8:36:25 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar - I've heard this could be the last year for "Black Friday" as we know it. A few of my friends went out and didn't have a hard time at all. Maybe that depends on when exactly you go out. I know a lot of stores open Thanksgiving evening, so maybe it is crazy if you go then. But you can wait until the following evening (which would still technically be Black Friday) get great deals, and not deal with the hassle of the amped up crowds. Though I saw a poll recently that said only like 15% of people actually go Black Friday shopping. Which seems like a REALLY low percentage if you ask me. 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/28/2017 5:16:48 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, I think you are correct.  The mass congestion to "grab" the deals at an appointed time seems to be dissolving.  Like anything else, I think the expanded competition in pricing, options, and Cyber Monday, are driving a change in the Black Friday shopping.

Maybe for the better?

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dlr5288
dlr5288
11/29/2017 3:16:12 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
I definitely agree! I know, at least for me, I’d rather wait for Cyber a Monday for the same deals than have to go out on Black Friday with all the madness..

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DHagar
DHagar
11/29/2017 5:23:56 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@dir5288, and again, I believe that deadlines will become obsolete.  It will probably increasingly deliver customer-specific pricing and learn the psychographics of when it is most desirable for us to buy?

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dlr5288
dlr5288
11/29/2017 6:49:01 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Very true! I also know that the internet has been killing small businesses. Some times they just can’t keep up. Especially with it being so easy to buy exactly what you want with a few clicks.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/30/2017 5:29:18 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@dir5288, very true!  Small businesses are going to have to figure out a "sweet spot" where they can optimize their ability to customize and know the customers.  It will not be easy, but those that do can find their nitch.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
11/30/2017 5:53:15 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Yes! I think if they can come up with some kind of delivery service then they might be able to keep up with demand.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/30/2017 5:55:40 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@dir5288, that is the key in this new digital intelligence age - is finding the unique abilities that humans (and small business) can provide.  It takes thought, testing, and learning, but we will all gain if we do!

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dlr5288
dlr5288
11/30/2017 7:49:02 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Yes great points! And it would be a shame to see small businesses die. They make up such a big part of communities. As long as they bring something to the table that the internet doesn’t, they should still thrive.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/22/2017 5:53:04 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@Ariella, good examples!  That is why I believe the internet and social media provides an "affordable" platform that is valuable to exposing small business and giving them alternative channels at lower cost.  The apps and social media will be another channel.

We actually want both to succeed, don't we?  The convenience of the Amazon distribution system but the innovation and market place for entrepreneurs and small business.

I believe that is where Huawei and other international companies recognize and may be developing platforms that create a better balance.  Maybe that is what the new models for Industry will provide - better suited to a global economy?

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/24/2017 11:49:54 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Good analogy.

I agree with you about us consumers wanting both ways to succeed. It is very interesting to think about potential new model to come up in industry mainly targeting global economy.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/27/2017 7:18:47 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, thanks!  I think that will reflect the new economy and address the realistics economies of scale, don't you?

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/18/2017 11:05:50 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Absolutely, anything that has reflections for new econony becomes a valuble fact for the market. And that in turn should be helpful in addressing the realistics as you mentioned. Do you agree?

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DHagar
DHagar
12/18/2017 6:28:05 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, yes, I do agree.  The changes, and transparency on what services and models are producing in response, is becoming a bellweather for companies to evaluate goods and services.  That may not be a bad thing?

It definitely is in alignment with the new concepts of failing fast.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/19/2017 3:03:58 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Transperancy is one thing that is contributing to evolve for companies. Ofcourse it would be a company's choice on the extent of transperancy that they want to maintain.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/19/2017 5:10:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, very true.  There will be a new "baseline" requirement I believe from customers in being able to judge results of goods/services and having some comparative information that will keep a minimum level of transparency.  I believe the genie is out of the bottle on this one.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/21/2017 11:25:56 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
You are spot on about the baseline requirement. Gone are the times when companies keep things confidential at all fronts about their initiatives. Current trend is chnaged in such a way that companies do release information about any new initiatives and keep releasing updates as necessary. Not to forget , ofcourse every company has own guidelines about level of transperency allowed.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/21/2017 7:28:50 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, very true.  Plus there are more uncontrolled input points - with customers, etc. (i.e., Yelp).  The internet has truly changed the controls and access and exposed more information - which can even go "viral" with social media - as we know.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/23/2017 3:59:49 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Absolutely, we were amazed when we started noticing the power of internet back then. Now it got magnified with the evolution of social media. Any new thing just becomes viral in no time at all, be it any type or kind.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/27/2017 5:47:52 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, true - it has become the communication vehicle of our time.  Being connected is everything now.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/28/2017 5:10:27 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar: I completely agree with you that being connected helps in tons of ways. At the same time there must be balance.

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DHagar
DHagar
12/28/2017 6:13:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, true.  It is no longer either/or - it has to be both - autonomous value, extended to connections.  This is a new stage of development for us - another learning curve - ie "transformation"?

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
1/21/2018 3:32:01 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Completely agree with what you have mentioned.

'Transformation' has become a new trend in the corprate. Most companies are hiring transformation or change management specialists. I think it will be good as long the target is to change into something reasonably good, practical and achievable.

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DHagar
DHagar
1/22/2018 6:25:04 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, and if it is truly transformation that means "in contrast" to what has been being done; as opposed to evolution.  So the future either is one of degrees of reapplying what we already do or to truly learn and create a new capability.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
1/23/2018 8:08:30 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar: Very valid point. We definitely passed that stage of reapplying and moving on. What is more practical in current market is to follow trends, apply learning from both success and failure case studies before you come up with new. There must be clear difference that the new product is going to offer and that would set this new invention apart.

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DHagar
DHagar
1/23/2018 4:36:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, well said!  That is the challenging part is the risk and opportunity to newly apply and discover new innovations and/or new transformations that will truly make a difference.  I guess we could call this the "Intelligence Rennaissance"?

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
1/23/2018 11:03:51 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar:

Can't agree more with you about risk and opportunity in the context of transformation. I really like your naming 'Intelligence Renaissance', as that justifies the very nature of heavy thinking involved.

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DHagar
DHagar
1/24/2018 6:56:47 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, thanks!  And again, that requires us to dust off the cobwebs and truly think!  That is the exciting part.

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
1/25/2018 8:23:04 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
Yup, time to tighten the belts and have a think hat on and that got to be real serious thinking. I would also add in present times we need to be alert all the time because every instance and experience may offer an opportunity for context sensitive thinking, learning and applying that at some point.

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DHagar
DHagar
1/25/2018 5:47:39 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni, now you are truly thinking!  Yes, and this is where the discipline of critical thinking and science will be distinguished from the decision making based on misunderstandings or outdated principles learned from old practices.  That line of thinking keeps us grounded.  The new line of thinking transforms us into new discoveries.

Exciting future!

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
1/26/2018 8:43:59 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@DHagar: LOL... In total agreement with you. Being alert, watchful of what is coming and think/apply should keep us moving.

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dlr5288
dlr5288
1/31/2018 2:03:52 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
I agree! A lot of it comes down to critical thinking for developing new products and working together to create something great.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/23/2017 8:50:40 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@Ariella - Exactly! I used Amazon Prime Now yesterday to do my grocery shopping. The day before Thanksgiving is traditionally the busiest day of the year for grocery stores. I didn't step foot in a grocery store yesterday, I just had it delivered. And while I'd love to support someone other than Jeff Bezos, I have such little time any more, I need someone that can deliver my groceries. If there was a small grocery store that could do that, I would welcome giving them my business. As for holiday shopping, I have it all done. And at least 95% of it was through Amazon. Without a doubt they are completely changing the face of retail. 

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Ariella
Ariella
11/23/2017 9:25:25 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
<If there was a small grocery store that could do that, I would welcome giving them my business.> @elizabethV In my neighborhood, there are a few independently owned grocery stores that are smaller chains that offer delivery service for $5. For another $8 or so they'll also shop for you, meaning a staff person will go around the store, collecting everything on your shopping list. So you can get the same convenience, and many people do use it, though it comes at additional cost.

I've never used it myself because I live so close to the stores and like to pick out my own produce, etc. But someone else on my block walks over to shop but pays for delivery.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/24/2017 9:11:15 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@Ariella - That's awesome! You pay an extra fee for Amazon Prime Now to deliver your groceries, well, you tip the person who shops for you and then delivers it. Generally $5 for smaller orders and $8 for larger orders. (It could go up from there, but I've never had larger than an $8 suggested tip.) So that's exactly on par with what you're quoting at those grocery stores. I'm jealous. We might be moving to a small town within the next few months, and there actually is a small grocery store not connected to a chain. It will be really exciting to see if they have a similar service. 

My concern when I first started using these services was the produce also. But I have never had an issue. The shopper has always done a great job picking out fresh, really good produce.

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Ariella
Ariella
11/24/2017 10:17:44 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
<My concern when I first started using these servicees was the produce also. But I have never had an issue. The shopper has always done a great job picking out fresh, really good produce.>

@elizabethv I guess you lucked out there. One of my friends who did try out a pay to have other shop for you said she was not happy with the quality and so would hav eto take the time after work or on weekends to do her own grocery shopping. But picking produce alone can be time-consuming, so if they're doing it well, you really are getting your money's worth!

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DHagar
DHagar
11/22/2017 5:44:03 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv, I fully agree.  That is where transformation truly takes place!

I think that is the great contribution technology, and the Internet, have made in providing a feasible platform to make small business competitive with large corporations.  The aggregated value empowers small business to succeed, and even thrive!

All big corporations were small innovators at one time!

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
11/24/2017 11:33:16 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv:

Can't agree more with you. I am exactly going through similar situation in my profession. I moved from a big company to small company and having lot of difficulty to adjust in my new job. It is not so easy to adjust well and adapt quick after getting used to the bigger enterprises. It is daily struggle at small companies as there is no defined process / tme for anything.

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elizabethv
elizabethv
11/28/2017 8:33:25 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@ms.akkineni - I made that transition a few years ago. It wasn't easy at the time, but I've adjusted now. And I've found that there are still ways where, big or small, the business ends up being the same. It can either feel familiar and welcome, or frustrating depending on how you feel. Of course I've now worked for two different smaller companies and found even differences there. The previous one I worked for let me bring my kids to meetings (which I absolutely loved.) But my current employer doesn't. That's life I guess though. 

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ms.akkineni
ms.akkineni
12/18/2017 10:38:47 AM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@elizabethv:

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It always helps to know and hear about other's experiences. I personally find useful facts often from those sharings.

I agree with you not all companies offer same even if same size or not. I personally think it all depends on the culture of the company to some extent and the rest is the midset of the manager or higher ups. I have also seen the cases where there is flexibility from higher managemnet but not from immediate reporting heads. It's just their mindset.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/9/2017 6:31:22 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan, valid points.  However, the realization of transformation will be not to transact with the old models of progress which increasingly pitted technology against human skills, but to transformation that will move into the higher architectures of Thomas Davenport and others who advocate technology as being enabling capability to human intelligence vs. replacement. 

If you don't create a new model though, building and delivering new values, you will not gain the added revenue streams and will be left with limited choices - ie - cutting costs (employees).

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/9/2017 8:19:00 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
The reality, though, is different as we are seeing with the advent of Fake News and some further "Food 4 thought" that we have to take into account as epitomized by what I saw today during my evening walkabout:

Rivals and governments beware. The age of Amazon and Alibaba is just beginning.
The Economist

Ashamed to work in Silicon Valley. Wall Street has long been the industry people love to hate. But as big tech's reputation plummets, suddenly a job at Facebook doesn't seem so cool.
The Guardian

 

 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/9/2017 10:20:51 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mpouraryan, I understand your point.  What I don't believe, however, is that Facebook and Amazon are operating with the same objectives as Huawei with the focus on transformation.  They clearly are the big elephants, but I do not believe they represent 100% of Silicon Valley corporate philosophy.  In other words, I believe there is more diversity with the "them".

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batye
batye
11/5/2017 7:39:18 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mhhf1ve not an easy process but as tevhnology develops Co. must follow this change or left behind... no other choice... the way I see it... 

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
11/7/2017 2:50:09 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
mhhf1ve,

I'm not sure something you're still getting net positive gain from can be considered "sunk." The old aphorism "sunk costs are irrelevant" was coined to apply to decision-making when you couldn't recover the costs and you still needed something for the original purpose of the expenditure -- e.g. buying a non-refundable used truck whose engine blew up, where a new engine and the labor to get it installed might well cost more than a replacement truck.  

Much of the alleged benefit of the cloud is some mixture of fashion (being up to date and current and part of the new future) or of some vague notion of reducing overhead (typically by outsourcing to a one-size-fits-all supplier). When the benefits are dubious and the existing, paid-for system works, the important thing is not that the costs are sunk -- but that they are low.

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mhhf1ve
mhhf1ve
11/7/2017 10:29:10 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
> "The old aphorism "sunk costs are irrelevant" was coined to apply to decision-making when you couldn't recover the costs..."

True, the original economic principle refers to the ideal case where the "sunk cost" is an item without utility, but in practice there is a spectrum of utility and/or obsolescence. When considering a migration to a cloud provider from an existing leased/owned datacenter, it's a tradeoff of different kinds of ongoing costs -- and you're right that the key is to make them lower. But the differences of the ongoing costs may not make that calculus entirely apparent -- especially when "owned" hardware is rapidly aging compared to newer technologies. 

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DHagar
DHagar
11/8/2017 4:45:19 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@mhhf1ve,  you make excellent points in recognizing the components within the cost comparisons are different, with some evn being long-term as opposed to short-term.

I am wondering if we may increasingly recognize that an come up with new metrics that better reflect the true "value"?

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
11/8/2017 9:50:08 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
DHagar,

Well, one obvious place to start in the new metrics -- and it's already in widespread use -- is to do expected value over time where you have a probability distribution on availability. 

It's what any family that saves money by driving "thousand dollar wonders" does (I can remember when those were "hundred dollar wonders.").  I.e. you know this car has maybe a year at best left in it if you do routine maintenance and very inexpensive repairs only, and i will cost $1000.  You plan to junk it and buy another thousand-dollar-wonder whenever it dies or needs something expensive. So some portion of what you save on insurance, repairs, etc. every month has to go into the Car Replacement Fund, and if you do it right, you usually have more in the Car Replacement Fund than the replacement car costs.  (Factoring in as high-cost low-probability cases the possibilities that you might have the thing blow up on the way to the emergency room some night, or that it might decide to perish right when you don't have time to shop Auto Trader).

You can easily do that problem (assuming enough data on hand collected over the last few years, plus that possible vendors are giving you accurate numbers) for the only slightly more complicated problem of when and whether to migrate to the cloud, and end up with a distribution for estimated time to make the switch that poses  lowest cost per acceptable risk.

However -- doing it that way means that the variance of your replacement cost is much wider, and it's quite possible that your board, CFO, or CEO may just not want to accept that level of risk. They'll need to look at the whole distribution, not just a single value for E(t).  (Okay, who will be first with the E(t) phone home pun?)

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DHagar
DHagar
11/9/2017 6:23:40 PM
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Re: A lot of "sunk costs" in older network tech...
@JohnBarnes, OK I will acknowledge the E(t) pun!  Good one!

True, but I believe we can take the knowledge from the pure formula application you have brilliantly outlined, and create a "comparative" value as to the additional capabilities that the transformation has provided to horizontally benchmark as to gains/losses, that will provide a bit more intelligence to the ROI numbers! 

In other words, I believe we will have to develop additional measures of value capabilities that capture the contribution to infrastructure as well as performance elements.  This will create a new bridge to the age-old problem of short-term vs. long-term value as well. 

Until we develop a financial value it can continue to be a stepchild and not appropriately factored in with just performance measures alone.

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
11/7/2017 2:56:23 PM
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You all need to do the things that we want you to ....
Xue appears to want the clients to crave getting out of the silo, integrating their functions around common models, and unifying the resulting large systems. This is not surprising -- Boeing wants clients to buy airplanes and rockets, Toyota wants people to buy cars, and so on. If you provide a thing, of course you want people to want it.

The curious thing, though, is it's all phrased in terms of Huawei's needs; why are departmental clouds too small if they work? Why does everything need to be to a common standard if it works within the company and there's no particular reason to share it beyond? And before we decide that widgets, whatsits, and gizmos should be unified under the cloud, perhaps we should pause and ask "What are they going to do with being unified?"

It's interesting how little problem there is for such a big solution.

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DHagar
DHagar
11/7/2017 5:33:34 PM
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Re: You all need to do the things that we want you to ....
@JohnBarnes, interesting reflection.  It is true that the finesse comes from the scalability and the ability to deliver the solutions the customer needs.

I would propose, however, that the "Big system platform" that Huawei has developed is needed to deliver the economies of scale and new deliverable solutions with NFV and virtuallized network.  The key, I would think comes from their application and if they can truly deliver a mass customized solution.

They do get points for identifying the size of the mountain, we will see if they can climb it successfully!

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JohnBarnes
JohnBarnes
11/8/2017 10:01:56 PM
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Re: You all need to do the things that we want you to ....
DHagar,

Traditionally economies of scale come from 1) wider sharing of overhead, 2) bulk purchasing, and 3) lumpy capacity. That is, the Mighty Big Widget Co. can outbid Scrappy Tiny Widget Co. because

1)Mighty Big only needs the same size of office staff (and can spred the cost over more transactions),

2) Mighty Big can get the volume discount on widget parts, which the supplier gives because they can pack bigger boxes and pay for fewer deliveries, and

3) widgetmills come in units of a million widgets per year, so Scrappy meets its 600,000 orders by using only 60% of their one-widget-mill capacity, but Mighty Big meets its 9.2 million orders using 92% of their ten-widget-mills.

The interesting thing about the cloud is that overhead is mostly automated and thus negligible (especially if it's in the cloud!), bulk purchasing is really a hardware issue (especially as NFV and SDN come into play), and one of the major advantages of being in the cloud is that capacity is no longer lumpy (you pay for infinitely divisible server access, not integer-unit servers).   So where would the economies of scale be coming from?

 

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mpouraryan
mpouraryan
11/8/2017 10:28:09 PM
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Re: You all need to do the things that we want you to ....
The Cloud is the future no doubt--and Government (Despite all the challenges we're witness to) is at the forefront of engaging it--as the GovLoop Virtual Conference I was at this year underscored.    

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DHagar
DHagar
11/9/2017 6:27:05 PM
User Rank
Platinum
Re: You all need to do the things that we want you to ....
@JohnBarnes, because it is a mass customization model.  You are tapping into "shared" infrastructure which gives the software-as-a-service the cost advantages of economies of scale, then you are able to deploy the applications that meet your customers and your markets.

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