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Re: Skeptical
@John.B:
Very good information and valid perspective. Good to read and know but scary at the same time.
I think requirement would increase in areas of Artificial Intelligence as we gear into automation / robotization / digitalization. We have to get ready and be ready by making ourselves dated.
JohnBarnes
9/30/2017 4:07:12 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
Michelle,
Actually that echoes an argument I've had at a distance (the distance being, it's mostly in her reviews of my books and how those influence what I write later) with Jo Walton for some decades. I think she is probably right that there's actually an enormous number of interesting things to do with time and effort besides working to survive and there are many, many different kinds of satisfactory rewards besides bossing people around or being the center of attention, and if machines abolish human work, we'll eventually make the world a reasonably happy and pleasant place for ourselves.
Where we disagree, I think, nowadays, is that I figure it will take a few generations to wring the too much work/scarce power and attention assumptions out of our social structures, and that we may be so addicted to the idea that people need to use most of their time to do many things they don't like in order to get a sliver of time or things they do, and that it's essential to have a few people with the power to compel this, that the "withdrawal generations" may be a pretty bad time (and might derail the whole process).
Michelle
9/30/2017 3:51:42 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
Fair points (some scary). What will become of humans without others to boss around? Have you seen Wall-E? That's an extreme example of allowing bots/computers to handle human tasks.
JohnBarnes
9/30/2017 3:33:04 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
Michelle, Elizabeth, et al.
I did say "that's what the robots of today do."
As I'm much too fond of noting, robots are rapidly gaining in nuance, complexity, contingency -- I would simply say in subtletly and intuition -- and unlike the fleshly HR people, a robot AI will not become less careful because it is in tired or in a hurry to get home, or less compassionate and perceptive because the boss was mad at it. Admittedly I'm an extremist -- I think eventually all human tasks that don't require having an actual physical body present will be done by machines better than any human being can do them, and that includes human client service jobs like HR, teaching, and counseling.
Automation is a loss to employees because currently we tie income to work (for the very good reason that if we don't, people don't work and we all go cold and hungry). But in the long run automation will be a benefit to the human race -- once we all have a way to get along without jobs. It's a threat to employees but a benefit to people. That's part of why it scares so much of the current political, economic, academic, and religious leadership: if human beings are no longer employees, who will they have to boss around?
Re: Skeptical
@DHagar:
Well stated, unless there is a human intelligence factor instilled into, machines will remain machines.
Re: Skeptical
@afwriter:
There is absolutely no doubt about what you stated. I can't even imagine that scenario. Machine is just a machine if there is no human force driving behind.
afwriter
9/28/2017 10:45:02 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
If machines took over all of our jobs it would either be a utopia or dystopia depending on how everything played out.
JohnBarnes
9/28/2017 10:33:37 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
ElizabethV:
"The body of a savage man being the only instrument he understands, he uses it for various purposes, of which ours, for want of practice, are incapable: for our industry deprives us of that force and agility, which necessity obliges him to acquire. If he had had an axe, would he have been able with his naked arm to break so large a branch from a tree? If he had had a sling, would he have been able to throw a stone with so great velocity? If he had had a ladder, would he have been so nimble in climbing a tree? If he had had a horse, would he have been himself so swift of foot? Give civilised man time to gather all his machines about him, and he will no doubt easily beat the savage; but if you would see a still more unequal contest, set them together naked and unarmed, and you will soon see the advantage of having all our forces constantly at our disposal, of being always prepared for every event, and of carrying one's self, as it were, perpetually whole and entire about one."
-- Jean-Jacques Rousseau, "Discourse Upon the Origin and Foundation of the Inequality of Mankind." (1754)
Plus ca change ...
DHagar
9/28/2017 5:52:48 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
@dir5288, that is when we will make true believers of the skeptics. We must find ways to adapt the technology with the productivity and innovative capabilities of the human intelligence (ie employee) or we will not be gaining.
dlr5288
9/28/2017 2:31:35 PM
User Rank Platinum
Re: Skeptical
Great points! I think it's so important to have organization and to be able to keep up with the new jobs.
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